Greetings all, just wanted to post my story and see if anyone else has experienced similar issues with Mitsubishi (and somewhat installers).
Mid to late 2019:
Get quotes from various HVAC companies, looking for a design for the main portion of my house, 2-3 heads for the first floor and 4 for the second (one in each bedroom).
Get wildly different designs, ranging from a single giant outdoor unit powering all the heads to one outdoor unit per two heads, and a couple with one compressor per floor, though with very different prices.
All systems are to be integrated systems, for Mass Save rebates (Massachusetts energy efficiency rebates and financing)
Early 2020:
Schedule installation with a reasonably responsive, decent priced installer with one compressor per floor.
July 2020:
Over the course of a week, everything gets installed, start running the AC right away as my house has never had AC (crank style windows in all rooms but two, and I'm far too efficiency minded to go for portable AC's).
At this point everything seems to be working fine, no complaints, and with the Solar panels on my house the AC is essentially free, so super awesome.
November 2020:
I notice that the heat pumps are using an alarming amount of power for heat, burning through the 1.4 MWh surplus I had built up through the solar in less than a month and a half of heating. Send some emails with concerns, respond saying they will look into it and get back to me
Second floor seems to be drawing significantly more than the first floor.
Multiple attempts at contact November 2020 through January 2021 I get brushed off with the usual "you're using electric heat of course it's going to use more power than your old oil system"
January 2021:
Finally get a tech out to look at the system after having issues with the app. I explain the power consumption and the tech said her would mention it and hopefully they would get back to me.
February 2021:
Bought an energy monitor (Emporia Enphase) and have readings from the second floor unit which appear very strange, when there was demand I would see a ramp up of power consumption (as expected) but then after 1-2 minutes it would shut off entirely, wait a couple minutes then ramp back up again. When calling for heat it would do this indefinitely, creating heat but not quickly or seemingly efficiently.
March 2021:
After many emails to my company finally got a tech out again, after checking everything he said it seemed that the system was overcharged by ~2 pounds, so it was removed then the system would be monitored.
March-May2021:
I sent multiple spreadsheets and PDFs of graphs of the behavior I was seeing, the temperatures etc, was assured that the information was being sent to Mitsubishi for review and they would look into it.
May 2021:
Tech on site, measures out refrigerant, finds that it is 2 pounds below the original designed weight, purges whole system and recharges with fresh refrigerant (excuse was that the original tech who charged it was a new hire and did with the tanks the wrong way up, so I had the wrong blend, that tech was found to have done that on a couple other sites, and had by then been let go from the company)
AC still worked through the summer so had to wait until heating season to see if this fixed it.
November 2021:
Finally able to get someone out (via false pretenses) to take a look at some routing of lines that I was suspicious of from the start, but the tech who was let go told me had to go that way. Person comes out and realizes that the routing shouldn't be the way it was as it's almost at the max recommended length and has about 10 right angles throughout the one head run.
Later November 2021:
One of the owners comes out to verify poor routing, and verify that it might be the cause of the excessive power draw. (Tried to feed me some BS that since the filters were a little visibly dusty that this might be causing the problems, despite this issue being from 4 months after installation)
January 3 2022:
Lineset gets moves to go through an attic space rather than basically around the house.
January 4 2022:
No heat in master bedroom in the morning, called for no heat, tech comes out, but I had accidentally power cycled right before they got there and it was working fine as far as I could tell.
January-March 2022:
Still getting cold rooms in the mornings but couldn't really figure out what was going on, in contact with HVAC company scheduled visit with a local rep to get it looked at (not mitsubishi, a local distribution company with some knowledge/training)
March 2022:
Tech on site talking with secondary rep via phone, diagnosed the whole system, wiring, piping, etc. Does a full evacuation and realizes that the system was overcharged by around 7 pounds (26 ish where it was supposed to be 19 ish) recharged with 19 ish (don't remember ounces) tested and left.
March-April 2022:
Did some of my own troubleshooting, figured out that if one or possibly two heads called for heat, it would ramp up but not provide much heat (approx 250 sq ft room with 9k btu head set 10 degrees up with all doors closed on a 35 degree day went up by 5 degrees in 2 hours, outdoor unit was drawing 2400-2500 watts the entire time)
Running all heads would cause higher power draw and all heads heat up rooms very quickly.
April 2022:
Secondary Mitsubishi rep came out and was looking at live pressure and temperature data, confirmed that the single head would not develop enough pressure to generate proper heat. Determined it was one of the circuit boards in the outdoor unit that was potentially bad.
Later in April 2022:
Board replaced, no effect on heating.
May 2022:
Actual Mitsubishi comes out, with secondary rep, and tech from HVAC company, looks at data as it runs, takes measurements, etc.
Determines that the unit seems to be undercharged by "a pound or two"
When asked if being overcharged would have the same effect, he said "no absolutely not" then when presented that the unit had behaved the same when overcharged by 7 pounds responded with "well who knows what the proper charge should be"
Later in May 2022:
Report to HVAC company from Mitsubishi: Because there is evidence of mouse damage they will not help fix it anymore or warranty anything.
Installer wanted to follow the advice from Mitsubishi and add a pound of refrigerant at a time, then wait at least 2 hours afterwards to see if it fixed the problem, this would have to wait until late October or so when the weather is cooler so they can adequately test the heating.
May-July 2022:
After refusing the next steps (as I knew they were not going to lead anywhere and would take weeks possibly months to test out, while I would be on the hook for more and more electricity being wasted, I pushed for one of two things, replacing the system with one to one units (I would pay for this, but did not want to exceed what it would cost to do that from the beginning) or tear it out and refund my money.
The HVAC installer said outright that they would not refund all my money if they tore it out, both because of how much tech time there had been and that there was now mouse evidence in the one outdoor unit so that was a loss for them. I never received a definitive amount that they would refund, but it was low.
They agreed to do the one to one upgrade but initially wanted almost $****** which would have been almost $***** over what it would have cost from the start, after many emails, and heated phone calls with the owners, I was able to get it down to $****** which still put me out a good $****** in both system cost and extra electricity and oil usage throughout the last couple winters, but it was this, or going to litigation over the next 5-7 years....
It was also in this time that I found out that my thermostats being completely disconnected since installation was not how it was supposed to function. I had Nest thermostats and after installation had asked why they were not powered and if I needed them and was told "nope, you wont need those at all, the integration system would take care of everything". So that was not properly installed or explained since the beginning, leading to my oil heat to run sporadically throughout the winters and costing me more in oil than it should have. (They would never acknowledge it was installed incorrectly though, but they did agree to remove the integration system)
July 2022:
Tear out old multi-zone systems and replace the outdoor units with one to one units. At the end of installation I realize that they didn't disconnect the integration and did not install a wifi unit on the new head that was installed, ask them about that and they said "we did not quote a wireless unit but we can quote to have one installed for you, and the integration disconnect wasn't in the paperwork but we will do it for you out of the goodness of our hearts"
August 2022:
I look at the integration before the tech comes to disconnect and realize that the thermostat wires going to my Nests were never reconnected hence they weren't getting powered for the last two years.
Tech comes and completely removes the integration system and reuses the wireless adapter from the integration station on the new unit.
Since installation I have seen about a 40% improvement in efficiency of the heat pumps in cooling mode, I'm hopeful I will see more than that in heating, from rated numbers I should expect around a 40% increase in cooling and about a 15-20% improvement in heating (if the old system was running properly)
I am amazed that for the MXZ-4C36NAHZ (the second floor outdoor unit) in order to use 4 heads there is a massive hole in the back and as far as I can find there is no easy way to close that hole, and yet the Mitsubishi warranty states "evidence of rodent activity" negates the warranty, it's as though they are setting those units up to fail and not be warrantiable.
Please do not add pricing to your posts. It is not allowed by forum rules.
Mid to late 2019:
Get quotes from various HVAC companies, looking for a design for the main portion of my house, 2-3 heads for the first floor and 4 for the second (one in each bedroom).
Get wildly different designs, ranging from a single giant outdoor unit powering all the heads to one outdoor unit per two heads, and a couple with one compressor per floor, though with very different prices.
All systems are to be integrated systems, for Mass Save rebates (Massachusetts energy efficiency rebates and financing)
Early 2020:
Schedule installation with a reasonably responsive, decent priced installer with one compressor per floor.
July 2020:
Over the course of a week, everything gets installed, start running the AC right away as my house has never had AC (crank style windows in all rooms but two, and I'm far too efficiency minded to go for portable AC's).
At this point everything seems to be working fine, no complaints, and with the Solar panels on my house the AC is essentially free, so super awesome.
November 2020:
I notice that the heat pumps are using an alarming amount of power for heat, burning through the 1.4 MWh surplus I had built up through the solar in less than a month and a half of heating. Send some emails with concerns, respond saying they will look into it and get back to me
Second floor seems to be drawing significantly more than the first floor.
Multiple attempts at contact November 2020 through January 2021 I get brushed off with the usual "you're using electric heat of course it's going to use more power than your old oil system"
January 2021:
Finally get a tech out to look at the system after having issues with the app. I explain the power consumption and the tech said her would mention it and hopefully they would get back to me.
February 2021:
Bought an energy monitor (Emporia Enphase) and have readings from the second floor unit which appear very strange, when there was demand I would see a ramp up of power consumption (as expected) but then after 1-2 minutes it would shut off entirely, wait a couple minutes then ramp back up again. When calling for heat it would do this indefinitely, creating heat but not quickly or seemingly efficiently.
March 2021:
After many emails to my company finally got a tech out again, after checking everything he said it seemed that the system was overcharged by ~2 pounds, so it was removed then the system would be monitored.
March-May2021:
I sent multiple spreadsheets and PDFs of graphs of the behavior I was seeing, the temperatures etc, was assured that the information was being sent to Mitsubishi for review and they would look into it.
May 2021:
Tech on site, measures out refrigerant, finds that it is 2 pounds below the original designed weight, purges whole system and recharges with fresh refrigerant (excuse was that the original tech who charged it was a new hire and did with the tanks the wrong way up, so I had the wrong blend, that tech was found to have done that on a couple other sites, and had by then been let go from the company)
AC still worked through the summer so had to wait until heating season to see if this fixed it.
November 2021:
Finally able to get someone out (via false pretenses) to take a look at some routing of lines that I was suspicious of from the start, but the tech who was let go told me had to go that way. Person comes out and realizes that the routing shouldn't be the way it was as it's almost at the max recommended length and has about 10 right angles throughout the one head run.
Later November 2021:
One of the owners comes out to verify poor routing, and verify that it might be the cause of the excessive power draw. (Tried to feed me some BS that since the filters were a little visibly dusty that this might be causing the problems, despite this issue being from 4 months after installation)
January 3 2022:
Lineset gets moves to go through an attic space rather than basically around the house.
January 4 2022:
No heat in master bedroom in the morning, called for no heat, tech comes out, but I had accidentally power cycled right before they got there and it was working fine as far as I could tell.
January-March 2022:
Still getting cold rooms in the mornings but couldn't really figure out what was going on, in contact with HVAC company scheduled visit with a local rep to get it looked at (not mitsubishi, a local distribution company with some knowledge/training)
March 2022:
Tech on site talking with secondary rep via phone, diagnosed the whole system, wiring, piping, etc. Does a full evacuation and realizes that the system was overcharged by around 7 pounds (26 ish where it was supposed to be 19 ish) recharged with 19 ish (don't remember ounces) tested and left.
March-April 2022:
Did some of my own troubleshooting, figured out that if one or possibly two heads called for heat, it would ramp up but not provide much heat (approx 250 sq ft room with 9k btu head set 10 degrees up with all doors closed on a 35 degree day went up by 5 degrees in 2 hours, outdoor unit was drawing 2400-2500 watts the entire time)
Running all heads would cause higher power draw and all heads heat up rooms very quickly.
April 2022:
Secondary Mitsubishi rep came out and was looking at live pressure and temperature data, confirmed that the single head would not develop enough pressure to generate proper heat. Determined it was one of the circuit boards in the outdoor unit that was potentially bad.
Later in April 2022:
Board replaced, no effect on heating.
May 2022:
Actual Mitsubishi comes out, with secondary rep, and tech from HVAC company, looks at data as it runs, takes measurements, etc.
Determines that the unit seems to be undercharged by "a pound or two"
When asked if being overcharged would have the same effect, he said "no absolutely not" then when presented that the unit had behaved the same when overcharged by 7 pounds responded with "well who knows what the proper charge should be"
Later in May 2022:
Report to HVAC company from Mitsubishi: Because there is evidence of mouse damage they will not help fix it anymore or warranty anything.
Installer wanted to follow the advice from Mitsubishi and add a pound of refrigerant at a time, then wait at least 2 hours afterwards to see if it fixed the problem, this would have to wait until late October or so when the weather is cooler so they can adequately test the heating.
May-July 2022:
After refusing the next steps (as I knew they were not going to lead anywhere and would take weeks possibly months to test out, while I would be on the hook for more and more electricity being wasted, I pushed for one of two things, replacing the system with one to one units (I would pay for this, but did not want to exceed what it would cost to do that from the beginning) or tear it out and refund my money.
The HVAC installer said outright that they would not refund all my money if they tore it out, both because of how much tech time there had been and that there was now mouse evidence in the one outdoor unit so that was a loss for them. I never received a definitive amount that they would refund, but it was low.
They agreed to do the one to one upgrade but initially wanted almost $****** which would have been almost $***** over what it would have cost from the start, after many emails, and heated phone calls with the owners, I was able to get it down to $****** which still put me out a good $****** in both system cost and extra electricity and oil usage throughout the last couple winters, but it was this, or going to litigation over the next 5-7 years....
It was also in this time that I found out that my thermostats being completely disconnected since installation was not how it was supposed to function. I had Nest thermostats and after installation had asked why they were not powered and if I needed them and was told "nope, you wont need those at all, the integration system would take care of everything". So that was not properly installed or explained since the beginning, leading to my oil heat to run sporadically throughout the winters and costing me more in oil than it should have. (They would never acknowledge it was installed incorrectly though, but they did agree to remove the integration system)
July 2022:
Tear out old multi-zone systems and replace the outdoor units with one to one units. At the end of installation I realize that they didn't disconnect the integration and did not install a wifi unit on the new head that was installed, ask them about that and they said "we did not quote a wireless unit but we can quote to have one installed for you, and the integration disconnect wasn't in the paperwork but we will do it for you out of the goodness of our hearts"
August 2022:
I look at the integration before the tech comes to disconnect and realize that the thermostat wires going to my Nests were never reconnected hence they weren't getting powered for the last two years.
Tech comes and completely removes the integration system and reuses the wireless adapter from the integration station on the new unit.
Since installation I have seen about a 40% improvement in efficiency of the heat pumps in cooling mode, I'm hopeful I will see more than that in heating, from rated numbers I should expect around a 40% increase in cooling and about a 15-20% improvement in heating (if the old system was running properly)
I am amazed that for the MXZ-4C36NAHZ (the second floor outdoor unit) in order to use 4 heads there is a massive hole in the back and as far as I can find there is no easy way to close that hole, and yet the Mitsubishi warranty states "evidence of rodent activity" negates the warranty, it's as though they are setting those units up to fail and not be warrantiable.
Please do not add pricing to your posts. It is not allowed by forum rules.
source https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/threads/2242147-My-battle-with-Mitsubishi-(and-installer-company)?goto=newpost
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